tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post6624702075418908906..comments2024-03-18T22:20:04.019-05:00Comments on The War Movie Buff: Zulu Dawn (1979)War Movie Buffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05999735218343872013noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-604534734896882692020-03-24T11:08:09.957-05:002020-03-24T11:08:09.957-05:00I appreciate the criticisms of inaccuracies in the...I appreciate the criticisms of inaccuracies in the comments. I had supposed, given the film's downbeat "anatomy of a defeat" plot, that the battle of Isandhlwana was accurately portrayed, and visualized the film depiction when reading about the battle from other sources. Now I will be more careful about my assumptions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-72006367480650700282017-09-26T20:35:49.422-05:002017-09-26T20:35:49.422-05:00Thanks a lot!Thanks a lot!War Movie Buffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05999735218343872013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-44291133106319547812017-09-26T04:46:28.048-05:002017-09-26T04:46:28.048-05:00Kevin,
""John, did you see my original H...Kevin,<br />""John, did you see my original History or Hollywood post from Feb., 2015?""<br /><br />I thought I had read all of it but just noticed that you also wrote:<br /><br />""The biggest artistic license is in the captured/tortured prisoners. The movie takes some liberties in the movements of the various units (or rather the actors) and compresses time as per a battle movie.""<br /><br />Plaudits for that. Cheers. Best wishes.<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09612748257540679544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-28860278274616919782017-09-26T04:32:51.735-05:002017-09-26T04:32:51.735-05:00Kevin,
Hi.
Various sources including Ian Knight...Kevin,<br />Hi.<br />Various sources including Ian Knight's books, the Quantrill and Lock book but above and beyond all of them is Col Mike Snook's excellent work called How Can Man Die Better which is just about the best work ever done on Isandlwana. It dispels the myths, makes great sense of the confusion and he writes from the perspective of a professional soldier and what almost certainly happened as opposed to guesses from the uninformed.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09612748257540679544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-36042459831586462582017-09-25T17:32:22.049-05:002017-09-25T17:32:22.049-05:00John, did you see my original History or Hollywood...John, did you see my original History or Hollywood post from Feb., 2015?War Movie Buffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05999735218343872013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-47560263173419284002017-09-25T17:29:31.325-05:002017-09-25T17:29:31.325-05:00John, can you tell me your source(s) so I can use ...John, can you tell me your source(s) so I can use them for a future History or Hollywood post?War Movie Buffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05999735218343872013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-18857067050321542342017-09-25T02:45:28.616-05:002017-09-25T02:45:28.616-05:006. The film shows the rocket battery only about 30...<br /><br />6. The film shows the rocket battery only about 300 meters in front of the tents. In reality the poor rocket battery was ordered by Durnford to go out and support him attacking the Zulus. The rocket battery ended up over 3km away from the camp where it was isolated and annihilated by Zulu gunfire. It was nowhere near the camp. Durnford had ordered it way out from the camp.<br /><br />7. Very little is shown of the Zulu's use of guns. In reality the Zulus had more guns than the British, around 4,000. Some 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 Zulus were armed with guns in all the battles of the Anglo Zulu War.<br /><br />8. The ammo situation is one of the big myths. In fact the infantry companies had plenty of ammo at the firing lines so ammo was certainly taken out to them. The only ones who ran out of ammo on the front lines were Durnford's men and Durnford did not take precautions to establish where his on ammo wagon would be. Durnford rode out after the Zulus at 11.30 am before his ammo wagon (following behind very slowly)arrived At Isandlwana. <br /><br />9. The film wrongly shows the end of the 24th Foot infantry. In reality, apart from G Company 2/24th (which was exposed and isolated by Durnford's retreat from the donga) the 5 infantry companies of 1/24th on the whole retreated slowly and reasonably in order back to the camp where they made last stands back to back in quite large numbers and it took quite a while for the Zulus to overcome them, as testified by the Zulus. It was certainly not all over very quickly as portrayed in the film. The infantry companies still had ammo left and they made the Zulus pay dearly during those last stands in clusters. <br /><br />10. Col Pulleine was not stabbed in his tent writing a letter (another officer was though) but was killed near the infantry firing lines while commanding the battle. He was shot by a Zulu 'over'. Many Zulu bullets missed the defending infantry companies and went over them into the camp. Maori Browne (the gruff fella in the white fur coat in the film) saw Pulleine's dead body out near the firing line and all eye witness account point to the fact that Pulliene was nowhere near the headquarters tents when the battle was getting towards it's climax. He was out by the firing line and was shot. Melville was also overheard telling Coghill when they were saving the colours that Pulleine had been shot.<br /><br />These 10 points are just for starters. I won't even go into details regarding the silliness of the captured Zulus and their subsequent escape subplot nor the overall apologising for Durnford who in reality must take a large share of the blame for the defeat. Pulleine was under orders to defend the camp. Durnford, when he arrived, should have taken over command and should have acted on the defensive but he went out recklessly to engage the Zulus and told Pulleine he expected to be supported. Pulleine was then obliged to send his infantry companies further out onto the plain in oder to protect Durnford from getting cut off from the camp. Left to his own devises, Pulleine would have initiated a much closer defensive perimeter, just as he did earlier that morning after circa 4,000 Zulus were spotted by a colonial observer at 7.00 a.m. Pulleine then gave the order for the infantry to 'stand to' right in front of the tents, which they did for 2 and a half hours until Durnford arrived and gave the order for the troops to be stood down. Durnford really upset the apple cart with his refusal to act on the defensive and his overeagerness to ride straight at the Zulus miles away from camp. He went over 5 km out, chasing after them with just a couple hundred men. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09612748257540679544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-9919299111733923192017-09-25T02:45:00.774-05:002017-09-25T02:45:00.774-05:00Kevin,
I can give you plenty of examples of the f...Kevin,<br /><br />I can give you plenty of examples of the film's inaccuracy. Long post this will be but:<br /><br />1. Chelmsford and Durnford never even met again after the invasion into Zululand began nearly 2 weeks before Isandlwana. They certainly did not have a meeting in Chelmsford's tent on the night of the 21st/22nd. All communication between them was via letter. Chelmsford had already left with half the column at 4.30 a.m, some 6 hours before Durnford first arrived at the camp.<br /><br />2. Durnford's 5 troops of Native Horse were with him at the time of the invasion. None of them crossed into Zululand with Chelmsford 2 weeks before Isandlwana. They all arrived at Isandlwana with Durnford at 10.00 am on the morning of the 22nd.<br /><br />3. William Vereker was not a horseman with the Native Horse troops. He was with the Natal Native Contingent and was on foot. He died in the camp as he could not find a horse to escape on. He was not amongst those who spotted the main Zulu impi.<br /><br />4. Durnford never received any intelligence about Zulu movements north of the camp. He knew nothing about the Zulu disposition until he arrived at Isandlwana at 10.00 a.m on the 22nd where he was informed by Col Pulleine of large numbers of Zulus seen north and north east of the camp between 7.00 a.m and 9.30 a.m. Nor did Durnford need to tell the camp to picket the hills. This had already been done in the proceeding days.<br /><br />5. Absolutely nothing is mentioned in the film about Major Dartnell with over 100 mounted men and Capt Lonsdale with 1,600 NNC going out as a recon patrol force to the hills to the southeast on the 21st, the day before the battle. This force encountered large numbers of Zulus which were assumed to be the vanguard of the main impi. This large force had to spend the night in the hills and Major Dartnell sent Chelmsford a note requesting support from 24th Foot infantry companies. Chelmsford received this note about 2.00 a.m on the 22nd. This was the whole reason why Chelmsford split his forces and went off at 4.30 a.m on the morning of the 22nd. Had the recon patrol with it's 1,600 native fighters been attacked and wiped out by the Zulus then the entire invasion would have been ruined. Chelmsford was in a bit of a quandary. <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09612748257540679544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-47015141516137658552017-09-21T20:46:31.962-05:002017-09-21T20:46:31.962-05:00I'll look into this.I'll look into this.War Movie Buffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05999735218343872013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-35730320356530348442017-09-20T04:30:38.727-05:002017-09-20T04:30:38.727-05:00I must disagree that Zulu Dawn is more accurate th...I must disagree that Zulu Dawn is more accurate than Zulu. It really isn't. Both are inaccurate movie license films. Zulu Dawn probably has even more inventions and fantasies than Zulu. There is so much wrong with Zulu Dawn from a historical perspective. If feels as if it is an apology for Durnford when the reality is that he shares much of the blame for the defeat.<br /><br />Unfortunately the film relied heavily on the outdated Donald Morris book The Washing Of The Spear, much of which has now been shown to be outdated and inaccurate.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09612748257540679544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-31851582454732573052017-09-20T04:27:41.786-05:002017-09-20T04:27:41.786-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09612748257540679544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-50602289429823946642017-09-20T04:27:01.251-05:002017-09-20T04:27:01.251-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09612748257540679544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-58136279561237157342016-02-04T21:51:25.730-06:002016-02-04T21:51:25.730-06:00Thanks for sharing. Interesting stuff. I've ...Thanks for sharing. Interesting stuff. I've learned a lot about movie making since starting this blog. One thing has been the amount of time and effort that goes into the production. It sure is a lot more time consuming than I thought. That's why I get upset with a talent like Peter Jackson wastes so much time on a movie like "King Kong".War Movie Buffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05999735218343872013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-79382893682488336162016-02-04T11:05:32.634-06:002016-02-04T11:05:32.634-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17695513052920445284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-14548082762409508472016-02-04T11:02:39.926-06:002016-02-04T11:02:39.926-06:00Spent seven weeks on the set as an "extra&quo...Spent seven weeks on the set as an "extra" - mostly during the battle sequences. Got to meet many of the top actors, who were amazing, down-to-earth chaps. The massive amount of organisaton and preparation for the major battle scenes made me really appreciate how challenging it is to shoot a movie of this nature. Some days, after 3 days of preparation, a scene lasting just 12 seconds would emerge... Four days to shoot 12 seconds of film...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17695513052920445284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-50420099978225011922015-02-20T15:26:59.506-06:002015-02-20T15:26:59.506-06:00Seeing it on Blu-Ray was a revelation.. Much bette...Seeing it on Blu-Ray was a revelation.. Much better than I remember. Highly recommended to any fan of "Zulu".tonyghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04645468900016847312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-49726640850357430352015-02-15T08:25:09.038-06:002015-02-15T08:25:09.038-06:00I can see why you might feel that way. It does ha...I can see why you might feel that way. It does have those elements, but my research proved that it is refreshingly accurate in covering a depressing subject (for most). The truth is that the British were stilted and heavy-handed in reality.War Movie Buffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05999735218343872013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7201660899514011402.post-86710296029687166162015-02-14T17:22:10.304-06:002015-02-14T17:22:10.304-06:00Nice review. I remember finding this one dull and ...Nice review. I remember finding this one dull and heavy-handed (especially John Mills muttering about "the final solution to the Zulu question") but it might stand a rewatch.Groggy Dundeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14990254767008162244noreply@blogger.com